Curse

Deathqueen · Feb 09, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

See that's the thing we shouldn't have to be a part of that which we hate/loathe just to have access to the Elite items. NOW, if ANET is going to put those Elite items in PURE PVE only content, then I could care less about the Faction Wars part of it. That's really my only concern. Will there be Elite Content that ANY joe blow can get to that is equivalent to what the Faction Wars Elite Content is going to be? I'm perfectly content with the New Tombs and UW/FOW (even if I don't like how it allows entry), but, at least I can gain entry to this without having to participate in some guild or gve or PVP activities. That's my only concern. All Gaile has to do is say YES you'll have access to the MOST ELITE stuff in the new game even if you DON'T Play FACTION WARS.

Shanaeri Rynale · Feb 09, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Thom

I'm not sure your theory factors in the time people have available to play, the time taken to form a group or get enough guildies on to even form a decent attempt. All the above reduce the chances of being able to access these areas.

The way the ruins of Tombs is done is perfect for these elite areas. Anyone can attempt it, there are good rewards at the end and it's a reasonable challenge for good groups. They are elite areas by virtue of difficulty, not access. Which IMHO is exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's this model that really helps the casual non grinding gamer, of which GW is supposed to be designed for.

Fantus · Feb 09, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

To just add my 2 cents here: I wouldn't really want larger and larger portions of GW being accessible only when certain conditions are met (especially conditions which are out of control by the average player). The Worlds at War concept in Chapter 1 sucks badly enough as it is. Ideas like WaW should be taken out of GW, not being expanded. The best "Elite" content is worth crap if you never can actually go there. GW will stay interesting if and as long a great variety of high level content is open for all players at any given time. The new PvE Tombs are the way to go. Locking players out of the best content in the game and allowing access to it based on what from their perspective are total random events (like other people winning Hall of Heroes and things like that) will only cause frustration.

Razorian · Feb 09, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Thom,

You first paragragh is interesting and it has a point I hadnt considered. But I guess we will have to wait and see how many of these town will be involved and the actual numbers. Even if you go as high as 7000 per day...I dont know, that sounds like alot but I think there are like over a million players. Granted they arent all playing at the same time but those numbers dont seem high in the grand scheme of things. Also, depending on how this works, it could end up being the same 5000, 7000, whatever number people, all the time....it doesnt sounds like it would be x-thousand of different people everyday.

Quote:

Larger towns have better Elite Missions, and ownership of these larger towns is given to alliances with higher faction ratings.

I doubt that there would be a huge fluctuation between which alliances have the the highest faction ratings...maybe initially, but over time it will probably be clear that these "10" alliances are always the top 10 alliances in faction points.

Considering how many people play, and the small % that would sound like would have access, AND you would have be online at the time when you alliance happens to gains access....doesnt sound real promising.

All that said, alot of this is guess work - trying to make sense of what some of these statements mean can be tricky. Dont misunderstand me I am NOT trying to bash a game before its even released....just trying to understand the product and what it is is really offering before I spend my money on it.

KurtTheBehemoth · Feb 22, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

I don't mean to bring even more stress to everyone but consider this. Elite alliances charging like 50k to smaller alliances and guilds to join. There could be some major ransom scamming if this turns out like I think it will. Arena Net insert foot into ass. You are gonna lose players.

Phrozenflame · Feb 22, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

I think this system is right, its about time PvE and PvP players come to terms with each other. I beleive Anet's only mistake was that they assumed there wil lbe cindrella-ending to PvP love PvE players and vice versa, that did not happen, while the game's goal was that you kind of become a PvP players after completing the game, but some people just like to repeat same old thing and so this didnt work out..over here both PvE and PvP players will have to work get access to elite maps unlike now, where PvP players do all the job to unlock FoW and UW, and PvE palyers rush to the scene and despise PvP at the same time. Thats unfair imo, but then...life's unfair.

Mo/R9 · Feb 22, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Factions are huge rooms.
Alliances are boxes in the rooms.
Guilds are objects inside the boxes.
Labels get put on the boxes and taken off the boxes that say what town(s) the said alliance (or box) controls.

That's my view on the Faction - Alliance - Guild relationship.

Now, there are going to be 50 areas that can be controlled. These are going to be constantly contested. I think this will cause more guilds to grow and for more of them to ally to deal with the attacks. So you might have, say, 10 alliances in a faction, each of them fighting for control. Anet have said before (I can't remember where, probably an old interview on gamespy or something) that Guildless people will be able to join an Alliance.

So, you have 3 factions. 50 divided by 3 is on average 16. So you have 16 areas on average each faction controls, give or take. The larger faction will control more, the lesser ones will control less, in turn there will be less alliances fighting for control within the faction's territory. For the sake of this analysis, we'll go on 16 areas per faction and 10 alliances per faction.

Ok, so, you can say straight up that each alliance will control at least 1 area. Some will control more. You have an alliance which has a Main guild for PvE, a main guild for PvP, 9 smaller guilds and around 30 casuals.

Average size of a guild in Factions I'd say would be around 60 people once you take into account the need for larger guilds (simply so they can exercise some control over a region). I think we'll see lots of guilds merging (as guilds, not alliances). So you have the 2 main guilds of each play type with 60 members each. That's 120 people. You add in the smaller guilds of say, 25 people and you get 345 and add the 30 casuals and you have 375 people in each alliance all fighting to control land and fend off attacks from 9 other Alliances while trying to extend their own territory.

Sounds pretty hectic, but I think it'll all work out. The bigger guilds will find they need more people to defend their borders and extend their control and thus they will search for other guilds to join their alliance and then the other alliances will need to up their defence and so will look for still more members and so it will go.

Just my 2plat.

neoteo · Feb 22, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

there is one thing im sure ANET will not nerf ..

is PUGS !!! , pugs will be able to get anything else that guilds get beside GvG .. ( even for gvg , there is the invite to guild feature that let outsiders join to play ... there is a sign of not wanting to keep stuff " Guild Only " )

sure a guild party can do elite areas much better then pugs , but pugs can still do it.

my 2 sigils

Raxxman · Feb 22, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

I just hope this doesn't end up as one side wailing on the other.

That could simply ruin this idea.

This is the problem with persistant zones, you get a landslide effect, then a bandwagon effect which makes the landslide effect even greater, thus leading to a total drubbing.

Zaxan Razor · Feb 22, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Its so stupid when so many people assume stuff, then believe it as fact. This is a poorly written article, as stated...but still, some of you people want to believe the worst for some reason, then wont be convinced otherwise.

Here's a list of points.

1) This game has no monthly subscription. Therefore, Anet will not make a game that caters toward the top %, as no one would buy it, and they would go bust.

2) We have no idea how many elite missions there will be.

3) The towns are controlled by faction, which is gained thru either PvP OR PVE!
This means that if a top pvp guild controls an area, a small PvE guild can acquite the area BY PLAYING PVE! (read that in a previous article)

4) We know what the difference is now between elite missions and elite areas.
There is a clear difference in game between the zaishen elite challenge (appears as a mission on the map, who'd have thunk it) AND UW, FOW which are accessed from a small outpost. They are not missions!

5) Dont be so negative all the time! geez! The fact is you have little to no information about the faction/alliances, and are basing everything, and your entire worldly knowledge, on a single, not very well written article!

6) We havnt even played the PvE WEekend event yet, which will surely give us more of an idea, my suggestion is wait for that, and questions will be answered. Unless of course, you know you are right, because you know everything, in which case..you wont be taking part. Then again, if you do take part, and are planning on sitting in game complaining, the sensible people among us, will rather you didnt.

Razorian · Feb 27, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaxan Razor

Its so stupid when so many people assume stuff, then believe it as fact. This is a poorly written article, as stated...but still, some of you people want to believe the worst for some reason, then wont be convinced otherwise.

Here's a list of points.

1) This game has no monthly subscription. Therefore, Anet will not make a game that caters toward the top %, as no one would buy it, and they would go bust.

2) We have no idea how many elite missions there will be.

3) The towns are controlled by faction, which is gained thru either PvP OR PVE!
This means that if a top pvp guild controls an area, a small PvE guild can acquite the area BY PLAYING PVE! (read that in a previous article)

4) We know what the difference is now between elite missions and elite areas.
There is a clear difference in game between the zaishen elite challenge (appears as a mission on the map, who'd have thunk it) AND UW, FOW which are accessed from a small outpost. They are not missions!

5) Dont be so negative all the time! geez! The fact is you have little to no information about the faction/alliances, and are basing everything, and your entire worldly knowledge, on a single, not very well written article!

6) We havnt even played the PvE WEekend event yet, which will surely give us more of an idea, my suggestion is wait for that, and questions will be answered. Unless of course, you know you are right, because you know everything, in which case..you wont be taking part. Then again, if you do take part, and are planning on sitting in game complaining, the sensible people among us, will rather you didnt.

The point to a forum is to discuss. People are curious about the game and will discuss based on the information they have. There is nothing wrong with that. The "lets just buy the game first and then decide if we like it" idea doesnt make sense to most people. That said, I agree no one should be "bashing" the game. ANET reads these forums so its good for them to see what people are concerned about. You have a right to your interpretation of what has been said, but not everyone agrees. For example, in your point #3, you said towns are controlled by faction which you get from PvE and PvP....but that has nothing to do with the what was said about alliances with the MOST faction will have access to areas that others will not have access to. This is what concerns some people. As far as the BETA is concerned - The BETA event that will not address the biggest questions people have since they relate to having access to end game elite areas and or missions. The short little BETA event will not be able to show people what will happen long term with who will or will not be able to get to play certain parts of the game becuase the alliance they are in doesnt have the most faction.

So, you have a right to your opinion but so does everyone else. Let people discuss...its good for GW overall to get all points of view.

Karmakin · Feb 27, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

A couple of things here. First of all, Mo/R9 is right. What you're going to see is a BIG consolidation of Guilds and Alliances. Alliances can contain up to 1000 accounts. You're going to see 10 guild alliances spring up fairly fast..then some guilds will join together to free up alliance spots. Over time, you'll see pretty maxed out guilds.

For most players, this will be a great thing. You'll always be able to find a group to play something, and not just a PUG, but a good team where you can rely on all your players.

The second point, is that on this thread you have a lot of PvE players worrying that they won't have access to content because they don't PvP.

From everything I've read, most of the Factions competitive elements are going to be PvE. What? How can you have competition and PvE at the same time?

Two ways. First, you're going to have races. 2 (or more) parties racing along a similar environment to perform a goal first. Think of the race against the White Mantle to energize the Hedge of Deravi portal.

The other way, that has been announced, is for combat challenges. For example, (And this is just my guess on how it works) you fight a group of 4 Char. Then 5 Char. Then 6 Char. Then 7 Char. The waves keep on coming. When your party dies, you're ranked depending on the level reached and the time taken to reach it. Your guild would then recieve Faction and Rating points depending on your rank over the last 24 hours.

One thing. In case any ArenaNet people are reading. I want one of these Challenge missions in which a team is limited to one of each class. One Mesmer, One Warrior, One Ele, right down. There's 8 classes now so it'll work

That would be a great competitive challenge, and great fun.

Fred Kiwi · Feb 27, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellyFlop

This guy sounds like a robot always saying the same thing no matter how many interviews they do.

why giving interviews if they all say the same?

just 2 days ago same thing on the podcast game on.

Its getting boring, i wish there was a really guild wars player asking the questions as well cos all they ask is the same boring stuf!!!.

i like the terms they use to ask question most of this terms are the ones that are used in WoW and not GW .

Amen.

Razorian · Feb 28, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

The second point, is that on this thread you have a lot of PvE players worrying that they won't have access to content because they don't PvP.

I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. I think its more fair to say that people are worrying that they wont have access to certain content because they dont happen to belong to the Alliance with the most faction. And there seems to be concern that long term there could end up being that one particular Alliance, or maybe there will be 5-10 top Alliances, which always have the most faction...meaning if you dont belong to that top Alliance or are in one of those top 5-10 Alliances...you will never or very rarely get to participate in the "better Elite missions" found only in the larger towns.

Quote:

Larger towns have better Elite Missions, and ownership of these larger towns is given to alliances with higher faction ratings.

This sounds like a reward system....most faction = better elite missions. But that also means there is a flip side...lower faction = no access to certain elite missions. I think this is what alot of people are concerned about.

Andy_M · Feb 28, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Hmmmm, and for those of us who want the choice of not making a choice ? Who don't want to join a guild just to access content ? Those of us who have no desire to join a faction (neither seem to appeal to me at the moment - why the hell should I HAVE to choose anyway ?)Those of us who just want to play the **** game without pvp interruption ?

It seems to be the favour question all over again. I resent the WaW system affecting how I play PVE, I don't see why where I am able to explore is affected by a factor that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I want to do. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it just makes no sense and (as has been mentioned before DOES promote racism).

I've said all this before but it bears repeating every few months or so...